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The case for dropping the hydrology requirement
Moderator(s): Ginger W. Jones
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5/23/2017 at 1:05:33 PM GMT
Posts: 3
Thanks for taking the time to put this together, Mark.  It was a very good read.

5/24/2017 at 12:40:19 PM GMT
Posts: 31
I agree with Mark, and would like to see the hydrology part dropped from the definition and eliminated from the test. When I took the test in 1995, it was the first time hydrology was included. It tripped me up and I had to take that part again. I have never designed storm or sanitary and do not intend to. I want engineers to stay out of our business and I will gladly stay out of theirs.

6/10/2017 at 5:58:02 PM GMT
Posts: 5
How about a Two-Tier system? Let those who want to do design/hydraulics acquire further training.

I'm in favor of increasing the educational requirements for new registrants. I posted a while back on the 4 year degree thread, so I won't repeat that, but additional educational requirements coupled with a required internship would go a long way toward helping things. This is a very different world than from back when I was a puppy, and education is the key to the future.

Dale Yawn

8/11/2017 at 11:39:02 AM GMT
Posts: 4
Well said. I agree.

10/16/2017 at 2:36:17 AM GMT
Posts: 1
While hydrology is a pointless requirement, I think it would be very unwise to further reduce professional requirements in the state while every other state is heading in the other direction.

12/15/2017 at 12:09:46 AM GMT
Posts: 1
Does anyone know of a board approved online hydrology course in the Georgia university system?

10/12/2018 at 10:58:15 PM GMT
Posts: 3
Mark, I have pondered replying for a long time to this but held off for no reason other than I was concerned I would get a lot of grief. I supported everything you advocated in your post and it has since come to pass but I fear it will do little good. It may open a door to those who had been shut out but other than those few I know of not a single person who is willing to put themselves through the process of getting licensed. And that is because of one

Let me regale you with some random thoughts and stories of real events.

Not long ago I was doing a small job and the woman of the house came out and struck up a conversation. She said that her son used to work for a nearby surveyor but that he quit the job to take something better. I was somewhat surprised to hear that, so I asked her what that “something better” was and she said that he was offered a job pushing shopping carts at Wal-Mart for $11 an hour. I could only shake my head and who could blame the young man. If he could make more by doing less then good for him

So, over the recent Labor Day weekend I found myself binge watching Netflix & I decided to grab my tablet and go on the Indeed website and see who was hiring and what they were offering for pay. What I saw almost made me want to throw my tablet across the room. Well known and respectable companies offering dirt for wages.
$10 an hour for field crew members
$15 an hour for party chiefs
$55k-$65k for and RLS
$60k-$80k for an RLS
Unknown amounts for drafters and cadd techs but I have no doubt it is miserably low
Folks, this is pathetic!!!!! They were paying these wages and more 20 years ago.

We wring our hands and wail and moan about not being able to find good help, yet we pay people pitiful wages. And we wonder why as a profession we cannot find good help much less retain it. A business exists to make money, but you also must be able to hire, train and retain good people and you cannot do that by offering up coupon day every day & double coupons on Fridays.

Years ago, I heard of a company in the Marietta area who used to hire parolees for field crew help. My first thought upon hearing this was; “you’ve gotta be sh!@#$%^ me”! Now I am all about redemption and turning over a new leaf, but we are supposed to be hiring para-professionals yet to hire parolees, convicts & send them out on a job where there is a prerequisite of trust and honesty required, I could not help but wonder how many houses were being cased and later burglarized because of it. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the person who told me of this and I can only hope it is no longer going on as it was a long time ago but that is absolutely unacceptable.

It seems everyone is making money except surveyors who seem to suffer from a highly contagious form of profit guilt.

I stand in good company with what I am about to say; Surveying fees are far too low and in most all areas of Georgia the fees need to double and, in some cases, triple to get to a level where we can hire, train and retain good people.

We need to be able to pay them more than they can otherwise make working elsewhere at a far less strenuous job such as pushing shopping carts or stocking shelves at Kroger. And those other places have the benefit of being able to use a real toilet and not take squat in the woods or get tore up with briars and bee stings and humping equipment up hills and working in foul weather. We need to be able to offer some reason for young people to WANT to do this work and the only way you do that is by showing them money.

People can make more money doing less so please tell me why anyone would want to do this kind of work…..anyone.

I read a story a few weeks ago where parents are paying for video gaming instructions for their little ankle biter kids. They are paying $25 an hour (and more) for someone to come and teach the little brats how to be better at video gaming. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

Is it any wonder why nobody wants to do get into surveying?

This is not 1970 dragging a chain and toting a theodolite, we spend a lot of money on the latest gizmos and gadgets and we need to charge more money. This stuff is not cheap yet it would seem that because of the aforementioned profit guilt we as a profession refuse to charge what it costs to do the job.

A very good surveyor friend told me that he believes that there is a huge number of surveyors who view our profession as a “public duty” and they only charge what it costs to pay the bills and meet payrolls. I'm beginning to agree with him.

In an effort to stay abreast of current pricing trends I make it a habit of asking what others field crew billing rates are and I am routinely told of, $125 hour but we only charge that on construction projects. Why?

You cannot turn economics on and off like a light switch. It costs what it cost….not what someone is willing to pay. If we leave it to the client to decide we will end up paying them to do their survey.

Folks, we are dying a death of thousand cuts and we are providing the knife.

If you have 2 or months or more of backlog you are far too cheap, and it should be obvious that you need to raise your bloody prices.

There is no reason whatsoever that everybody here cannot double or triple their prices and begin to offer good wages and more importantly good benefits. Good wages, not a $1 below what someone at Home Depot makes.

Show them the money and they will come and be good employees but if not, they will be working at Ingles and doing cleanup on aisle 4 and when they are done they will take a lunch break in a air conditioned break room and real rest room nearby and getting paid $13 an hour.

Hey Brasfield & Gorie pays some of their unlicensed field engineers 125k plus travel and per diem.

Few survey managers make that.

10/22/2018 at 12:38:21 PM GMT
Posts: 16
Steve you are absolutely correct. 99% of all business matters are market driven. What we have are a lot of surveyors who suffer from the two things that you touch on : "profit guilt" and "public service". I could go on and on but I don't know that it would help anything. Just know that not all surveyors are in that mindset and I think that economic principles of supply and demand are in the process of correcting this situation, it is just gradual.

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